Saturday, March 10, 2007

Spiritual theory versus scientific theory

I decided to post this answer to John Stone of Curbstone Critic from the comment section of a previous entry, Science, Superior to God? on the main page:

John quotes me:

"I don't know how God was created, God IS and always has been"

and then answers:

"It a good thing you ducked this question"

I've never ducked that question. I have always told you I don't know how God originated, John, both at your blog and at mine. Telling you I don't know that answer is my answer. How is that 'ducking' anything?

On the other hand, you have replied to my post, Science, Superior to God?, twice now and have yet to actually offer any commentary on anything pertaining to the actual post....(quack, quack) ;)

John writes:

"First causes m'dear. If you can't explain first causes for God like I can explain first causes for the universe ... then you are hopelessly mired in myth, superstition, and wishing it were that'a ways."

Are you claiming it's the 'explaining' that makes science superior to God, then?

If I come up with a theory about how God began (first cause) and 'explained' my theory about how God began, you'd no longer believe that I am "hopelessly mired in myth, superstition and wishing it were that'a ways?" (pinch me! Haw!)

Care to explain how your theory that unless everything which exists is 'explained,' not necessarily proven, mind you, but 'explained,' that it is myth, and those who believe in it's existence are superstitious fools?

Bottom line, you (scientists) 'explain' something and bingo (!) you have a theory to defend, you can then claim this is how it happened because (the great) WE (AM), scientists, have 'explained' it, and then proceed to place FAITH in your scientific theory as fact because you believe it to be so, because you have found indications which can be scientifically debated among your peers.

I'm not a scientist, I have never professed to be a scientist, but I have seen indications in my life which can be spiritually debated among my peers as indicators of God's existence. You see my theory is that He is relevant in my life and that He would like to be relevant in your life, he is explainable in spiritual terms, just as your scientific theories are explainable in scientific terms. I can accept and tolerate your scientific theories, I can consider and debate them with you because I accept that science exists, you cannot accept and tolerate spiritual theories, consider or debate them with me because you do not accept God's existence. It's actually elementary, my dear.

You choose to believe there is nothing smarter than you, nothing in the universe greater than man, that if you can't explain it then it isn't real and since you cannot explain my personal faith you proceed to call me and 'people of faith' (see Barack Obama), 'superstitious fools.' Apparently, Christians are more humble than you scientists. Christians believe in God, believe that one can have an intimate and personal relationship with Him and that our minds are finite and incapable of understanding and explaining everything. We have faith in our spiritual *theory* that God exists and we have spiritual reasons for that faith. Our theories are based on spiritual criteria, yours are based on scientific criteria. You presume your criteria to be superior to mine. It's really that simple.

The Roman Road:

The Roman Road provides a detailed map for our salvation and eternal fellowship with God. Just follow these steps:

1. We must acknowledge God as the Creator of everything, accepting our humble position in God's created order and purpose. Romans 1:20-21:

"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened."

2. We must realize that we are sinners and that we need forgiveness. None of us are worthy under God’s standards. Romans 3:23:

“For all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God.”

3. God gave us the way to be forgiven of our sins. He showed us His love by giving us the potential for life through the death of His Son, Jesus Christ. Romans 5:8:

“But God demonstrates His love toward us, in that, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

4. If we remain sinners, we will die. However, if we repent of our sins, and accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, we will have eternal life. Romans 6:23:

“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

5. Confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead and you are saved. Romans 10:9-10:

“That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”

6. There are no other religious formulas or rituals. Just call upon the name of the Lord and you will be saved! Romans 10:13:

“For whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”

7. Determine in your heart to make Jesus Christ the Lord of your life today. Romans 11:36:

"For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen."


John Stone said...

You say you are awed by God?

How trivial.

I can show you stuff that will really awe you. Stuff that writers of 4000 years ago never thought of .. in fact, stuff that existed 4000 years ago that God didn't think was important enough to inform the seers and souths about. God thought we were too stupid to figure it out on our won, perhaps.

God was wrong again.

And everyday to use these secrets that God hid for you until just recently .. a cell phone, a TV, a Hubble telescope ... just to name a few ... so my conclusion?

God has no respect for you. Why in the world world you want to respect Him?

John Stone said...

Incidentally, I finally got around to adding you (and some others that I read regularly) to the blogroll ... just to help out your hits :-)

John Stone said...

I just ran across this essay ...

Quote: "But a careful reading of older texts, particularly those concerned with the universe itself, shows that the authors invoke divinity only when they reach the boundaries of their understanding. They appeal to a higher power only when staring into the ocean of their own ignorance. They call on God only from the lonely and precarious edge of incomprehension. Where they feel certain about their explanations, however, God gets hardly a mention."

Jacke M. said...

John writes:

"You say you are awed by God?"

I am certainly awed by God but I didn't "say" that anywhere in this post. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else or something you read somewhere else?

I wear a skirt occasionally but I don't remember accepting your invitation to this particular dance.

I must view respect somewhat differently than you view it, John. Rather than talking in circles around people I prefer to directly respond to them. This is one of the small ways in which I believe people show respect for one another in the course of *debate.*

Jacke M. said...

Then John writes:

"I finally got around to adding you to the blogroll ... just to help out your hits :-)"

Relish the idea of me getting "hit" more often, do you?


Jacke M. said...

John, I'll check out your essay. In the meantime, Elmo left you a reply under "Science, Superior to God?" You might have missed it. :)

John Stone said...

Thanks .. I added a comment. It is one of the most common questions that physicists are asked. I had the great privilige to be sitting in the audience when the solution was announced. One of the great thrills and insights of my life ...