tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post112920810782074550..comments2024-01-15T05:16:04.605-06:00Comments on JackeHammer: A Progressive Christian's Motto? "Judge Not Lest We Judge You for Judging"Jackie Meltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10554151805461400754noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129685057783587322005-10-18T20:24:00.000-05:002005-10-18T20:24:00.000-05:00yet bush has supported the terrorization and tortu...<I>yet bush has supported the terrorization and torture of muslims. that isn't very christian is it?</I><BR/><BR/>He has not supported "terrorization and torture" of Muslims, Anonymous. Those who went beyond what the law allowed are being punished, something our enemy does not do. What is it about "progressives" that make them sympathize so much with our enemies? I don't understand it. <BR/><BR/><I>will you abide by your belief that the government is ordained by god then? will you support it? or do you think that america will be somehow exempt and will be some shining light in the darkness?</I><BR/><BR/>Will I still believe that the government in the end times is such because of the authority given it by God? I sure will. No, I won't support it by worshipping a false god, as we are told not to be fooled. However, I will not resist their authority. If the governing authority says I must die because I will not worship or pray to a false god, I will submit to that authority for we are told "whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God."<BR/><BR/>For your information, I have never suggested anyone blindly trust any government, but pointed out that we are to follow the law, that it is there with authority from God, and that the prescribed behavior of individuals is different than that prescribed for governments, which are charged with using violence to execute wrath upon him who practices evil. <BR/><BR/>What am I claiming others are doing?Momma Twoophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06111193334831175675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129669884631134962005-10-18T16:11:00.000-05:002005-10-18T16:11:00.000-05:00Anonymous, there are actually some things, you las...Anonymous, there are actually some things, you last posted, on which we agree, and then there are, what I believe, are misrepresentations or misinterpretations.<BR/><BR/>I absolutely agree with you that there is no differentiation of sin in God's eyes. <BR/><BR/>Your misrepresentation is in this statement:<BR/><BR/>"bush appointed a man that believes that torture is the right course"<BR/><BR/>I must assume that you are speaking of Alberto Gonzales, since you failed to make that plain. Alberto Gonzales was an advisor to the President and he does not believe that torture is the right course in interogating terrorists. He merely looked at the situation from a legal standpoint as was his job to do. No one from high up in the Bush administration authorized those who are being tried to take the actions they took and while those actions were certainly abusive they were not torturous, imo. <BR/><BR/>Now, your description of a soldier following orders in war time as a "murderer" is beyond the pale. You must be a complete pacifist, which is certainly your right, but I cannot and do not agree with you if you are. There is a time when war is justifiable, I believe, in my heart of hearts that the war in Iraq was such a war. <BR/><BR/>If you go back to OT times in the Bible you will find instances when God encouraged war and actually aided His people in war. Would he encourage it and aid in it and then call those who did His will "murderers?" I don't think so.Jackie Meltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10554151805461400754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129668884304366132005-10-18T15:54:00.000-05:002005-10-18T15:54:00.000-05:00does god claim one sin is worse than another? is m...does god claim one sin is worse than another? is murder worse than lying or is lying better than adultery? no. to god they are all the same. so the sins of bush are the same as osama's. as saddams. as hitlers. as yours. as mine.<BR/><BR/>you must not be watching the news much. bush appointed a man that believes that torture is the right course. soldiers are on trial for sadistic sex acts and torture committed against muslims in us detainee camps.<BR/><BR/>you look at the world through the eyes of mankind. god looks at the world with holy eyes. in the eyes of a holy god bush will be judged just like saddam will be judged. soldiers will be judged for the murders they commit in Bush's name. christians will be judged by how much they did or did not do as jesus taught us to do.<BR/><BR/>the best course is to follow jesus and leave the world to it's politics, it's governments, it's petty wars, and the demons that run rampant on it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129650788440385822005-10-18T10:53:00.000-05:002005-10-18T10:53:00.000-05:00Bush has not supported the terrorization and tortu...Bush has not supported the terrorization and torture of Muslims. Where do you get this? Bush is currently staying the course to insure that Muslims in Iraq have a fair chance at Democracy, thus the vote on their new Constitution? What you describe is what Iraqis lived with under the rule of Saddam Hussein, not under their new constitution.<BR/><BR/>You are right that man is inherently sinful, that is the reason God sent us a Savior, the only way man can be righteous is by accepting that Savior and relying on God's Holy Spirit to work through him. Now, we aren't always successful because we are inherently sinful and many men choose not to accept Him and therefore, live out from under His umbrella of protection and guidance. All men are capable of great evil and great good. Bush is no Hitler, Bush is trying to protect a Nation, the Nation he was elected to protect and secure.<BR/><BR/>Again, no one likes war and no one in America is pro-war, however, it could be argued that Islamo-fascists are pro-war, they feel it is Allah's will that every infidel be killed, that all Jews be killed, all Americans, all Hindus, Christians, in short anyone who isn't an Islamo-Fascist is an infidel in their eyes, even fellow Muslims who do not follow their brand of Islam are considered worthy of death. All Muslims are not Islamo-Fascists but recent statistics, I believe in England, showed that a majority are at least sympathetic to the cause of the terrorists.<BR/><BR/>All actions are not equal, the actions of Bush are not equal to the actions of Osama bin Laden or Hitler. Do you really believe they are the same? Do you believe that there are no causes for good on this earth? Do you believe that everything done in the name of security and defense is just as evil as outright killing and mayhem for the sake of killing and mahem? Do you think that the planes which flew into the WTC and the Pentagon on 9/11/01 were justifiable? Or that by America removing a brutal dictator who precided over torture, mass killings of his own people, plundering of the Oil for Food Program at the expense of the suffering of his own people, sponsoring world wide terrorist acts against innocent civilians is comparable to the U.S. removing such a villan from rule? Do you really believe that? If you believe that is true you and I will undoubtedly never agree on anything.<BR/><BR/>As far as Satan ruling the earth, yes, for a time, but he does not have any more power over God's people than God allows. Read the Book of Job. Satan was allowed by God to take certain actions in the life of Job, however, Satan did nothing to Job or anyone in Job's family without seeking God's permission. Satan only has the power over God's people that God allows, I believe for our spiritual growth. So, did God do these things to Job? No, Satan did. God allowed it. Did God cause terrorists to fly into the WTC and the Pentagon, no, but God certainly allowed it to happen, nothing happens that God is not aware of.<BR/><BR/>God allowed Saddam Hussein to rule over his people for a time, then God allowed George Bush to lead his country to war against him and he was removed from that power. He was removed from that power for a reason. We cannot know all of God's reasons for what He allows and doesn't allow because we are mere men. That is why the Christian religion requires trust and faith. Do you trust God, that whatever happens on this earth, that you can have hope for the future? I do. Praise God for His Great Sovereignty and Awesome Power!Jackie Meltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10554151805461400754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129646710571201592005-10-18T09:45:00.000-05:002005-10-18T09:45:00.000-05:00yet bush has supported the terrorization and tortu...yet bush has supported the terrorization and torture of muslims. that isn't very christian is it?<BR/><BR/>the fact of the matter is that men are inherently sinful and they cannot be trusted to do what God would have them do. that is why in the end times the governments will claim that religion is the root of all evil and that it divides us. they will claim there should only be one religion that combines all the religions of the world. one day the anti-christ shall come to power and proclaim that he should be worshipped by all.<BR/><BR/>will you abide by your belief that the government is ordained by god then? will you support it? or do you think that america will be somehow exempt and will be some shining light in the darkness?<BR/><BR/>satan rules the earth. that is why god says we are not to be of this world. jesus will come and then he will reign. until that day comes, you risk much trusting any government, including america's. politics are of this world. you do just as you claim others are doing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129605761570261132005-10-17T22:22:00.000-05:002005-10-17T22:22:00.000-05:00If governments are God-appointed authorities than ...<I>If governments are God-appointed authorities than does that mean that Saddam and Hitler were doing what God wanted them to do? Of course not. So why would you believe Bush is?</I><BR/><BR/>They weren't doing what God wanted them to do, obviously. They are no longer in power, are they? Oddly, their reign came to an end specifically because countries, governments and individuals did that which you say is forbidden, for some reason. Their "magistrates" ended because governments took it upon themselves, as is their authority, to "execute wrath against him who practices evil." Did their authority come from God? Yes, it most certainly did because "it is written." <BR/><BR/>Funny, you know what the Bible says, yet you choose to ignore it. Why? Do you truly believe you are smarter than God, or is it that you believe He was just wrong when He spoke? You either believe the Bible, the Holy Word, or you do not. Which is it?Momma Twoophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06111193334831175675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129605208472133542005-10-17T22:13:00.000-05:002005-10-17T22:13:00.000-05:00I'm beginning to understand why bloggers don't spe...I'm beginning to understand why bloggers don't spend a lot of time replying to their commenters. I suppose that is something you learn as you go.<BR/><BR/>Anonymous, I know that it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to you to compare Bush to Hitler or Saddam Hussein but believe me, in reality it is a huge stretch. Of course if one was to spend much of their time frequenting the D.U. and other leftist blog sites which care little about the truth such a stretch would become easier to swallow, I'm sure.<BR/><BR/>When, dear anonymous, was the last time Bush cut out the tongue of a U.S. citizen? Ran a U.S. citizen feet first through a chipper shredder? Cut off fingers of one of his countrymen? Do you think before you let your fingers do the walking? <BR/><BR/>I really have little more to say until you decide to join the real world, anonymous. Why don't you join a debate group? You are entirely off topic and getting more off the wall with each comment you add. DU has a forum, doesn't it? Good night.Jackie Meltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10554151805461400754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129602827746602052005-10-17T21:33:00.000-05:002005-10-17T21:33:00.000-05:00If governments are God-appointed authorities than ...If governments are God-appointed authorities than does that mean that Saddam and Hitler were doing what God wanted them to do? Of course not. So why would you believe Bush is?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129602294748366022005-10-17T21:24:00.000-05:002005-10-17T21:24:00.000-05:00i totally love how you totally run all around a st...<I>i totally love how you totally run all around a statement and don't even bother to address it. the truth was spoken. jesus spoke the truth. live it or don't. we all answer to god in the end and i am sure that he will judge us on how well we followed the example he gave us in jesus and live the truth jesus spoke.</I> <BR/><BR/>Care to explain, Anonymous? The only one running around statements made is you. <BR/><BR/>Yes, Jesus spoke the truth - in all He said. So, why do progressives ignore that which doesn't support their beliefs? Why do they pretend the OT and God's words are, in essence, made null and void, when Jesus specifically stated otherwise?Momma Twoophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06111193334831175675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129601392532506252005-10-17T21:09:00.000-05:002005-10-17T21:09:00.000-05:00Speaking of running around a subject, who are you ...Speaking of running around a subject, who are you addressing and what specific statement is being run around? If you have a question, ask it, a comment, make it.<BR/><BR/>You won't even give your name and yet you are telling someone else that they are running around a subject? What is it to which you'd like a reply? I don't know whether you are the first, second, third, fourth or eighth anonymous, or whether you are are all or none of them. What is clear, however, is that you seem unwilling to extend the smallest amount of respect to those to whom you write.Jackie Meltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10554151805461400754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129597878620052372005-10-17T20:11:00.000-05:002005-10-17T20:11:00.000-05:00i totally love how you totally run all around a st...i totally love how you totally run all around a statement and don't even bother to address it. the truth was spoken. jesus spoke the truth. live it or don't. we all answer to god in the end and i am sure that he will judge us on how well we followed the example he gave us in jesus and live the truth jesus spoke.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129585075848082792005-10-17T16:37:00.000-05:002005-10-17T16:37:00.000-05:00I couldn't agree more, Jacke. The message is clea...I couldn't agree more, Jacke. The message is clearly contradictory. Again, I have no problem with our government using my tax dollars to help out those who are truly in need. I don't view homosexual workshops, such as "Successful Fisting for the Gay Man," as "helping the needy." Yes, I submit to the government in that I haven't withheld tax fees levied against my income, but I do question what the government does with those monies in some instances. Further, it has been proven repeatedly through studies that a homosexual lifestyle carries with it certain risks above those associated with a heterosexual lifestyle. Based on that alone, it is mind-boggling that anyone would want to promote it as healthy and natural. <BR/><BR/>I certainly have to work on not passing judgment on others as being backwards, elitist, ignorant and selfish. I shouldn't have said such things and I apologize to Anonymous.<BR/><BR/>Having said that, I still don't understand picking and choosing select portions of that which Jesus said, taking them out of context, while ignoring the rest of what was said if it doesn't support a belief.Momma Twoophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06111193334831175675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129582274374321712005-10-17T15:51:00.000-05:002005-10-17T15:51:00.000-05:00You know, Twoop, we have one anonymous telling us ...You know, Twoop, we have one anonymous telling us that because the government is our authority that we shouldn't complain about how the government spends our tax dollars and then we have another anonymous telling us that we must complain when the government takes us to war to defend our Nation against terrorism. <BR/><BR/>I don't pretend to know everything about scripture and everything about Jesus. I have many questions myself, but Jesus and God the Father are one with the Holy Spirit. They are all in agreement, I do believe Jesus made it clear while He walked the earth that He submitted Himself to God the Father. God the Father most definitely approved righteous war and even encouraged war perpetrated by His chosen people.<BR/><BR/>Yes, we are under a new covenant of grace, I also understand that, but Jesus is also clear in scripture that there will come a time when He will judge mankind, that isn't a very tolerant position, now, is it? WE are not to do it, until that time. Jesus, when he was a man/God was not always just about love, or rather he believed in rebuking IN love. He had many strong words to say against people he viewed as hypocrites. He was capable of anger and acting in anger. He felt and had all the emotions that men have. He was more concerned about man's spiritual health than his physical health, however, he ate, he knew that man had physical needs. I don't know, to me, a war which a government undertakes to protect it's people from terrorists and those who support and fund terrorism is a justifiable war. <BR/><BR/>I see it so much of the time with Progressives that they want to pretend that Jesus is only one dimensional. He isn't. And I can't say anything beyond the Words of Jesus, but I can say that Jesus did not present a contrary view to God the Father, rather He complimented God the Father. <BR/><BR/>I don't believe there is a person in America who is pro-war and loves to be about that business, but, much as we all hate it, there are certainly times when it is justifiable. <BR/><BR/>For one who is a follower of Jesus, this anonymous seems awfully quick to pass judgement on his/her brothers and sisters in Christ. That's a shame, isn't it?<BR/>And originally, that was the topic of this blog to which anonymous is commenting. He/she seems to prove the point, fortunately it is not unforgivable, as ALL men have a tendency to do so, some have more of a tendency than others and the Bible certainly instructs us that we should not judge others, I suppose that is something that we all must continuously work on within ourselves.Jackie Meltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10554151805461400754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129581903425268542005-10-17T15:45:00.000-05:002005-10-17T15:45:00.000-05:00Exactly, Jacke. We, as Christians, are called to ...Exactly, Jacke. We, as Christians, are called to love our enemies individually. At the same time, we are told that government is charged with executing wrath on him who practices evil. Jesus did not promote the message of peace at all costs to the exclusion of EVERYTHING ELSE in scripture, as Anonymous pretends. <BR/><BR/>"Progressives" seem to be saying that Jesus told individuals to love the enemy at all costs, never fight back, no matter what, but was wrong ("Ooops!") when He instructed magistrates - comprised wholly of <I><B>individuals</B></I> - to execute wrath against evildoers, the very same government to which we are told to submit. Are those individuals in our military committing sin by fighting against, or executing wrath, against that which is viewed as evil and at the direction of our government? NO! They're doing exactly what has been dictated to them!<BR/><BR/>In order to be a "progressive," it seems you must pick and choose those portions of what Jesus said to believe, ignoring that portion which doesn't support what you WANT the Bible to say.<BR/><BR/>I include the word "progressive" in quotes because it is my opinion that suggesting Jesus was wrong, or that His presence negated the entire Old Testament, is far from progressive. It is backwards, elitist, ignorant and selfish.Momma Twoophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06111193334831175675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129579883255255932005-10-17T15:11:00.000-05:002005-10-17T15:11:00.000-05:00Jesus gave that instruction to everyone, knowing t...Jesus gave that instruction to everyone, knowing that it isn't always possible to escape war. I would suspect it is hard to love someone evil, like a terrorist, when you're killing one, but, we are human. Further, the government ordering that the fight be taken to the enemy has authority over us.<BR/><BR/>We are always to pray for peace, but once war is raging, we are to submit to the authority of our government, praying for the safety of ALL those involved. I don't understand why progressives have such a hard time understanding this. Is it because they just don't want to?Momma Twoophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06111193334831175675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129579593960503072005-10-17T15:06:00.000-05:002005-10-17T15:06:00.000-05:00Anonymous said... jesus knew there would be wars b...Anonymous said... <BR/>jesus knew there would be wars because man is by nature sinful. jesus said to love our enemies and i am sorry but you can't love your enemy while putting a bullet in their head and bombing their cities. <BR/><BR/>12:44 PM <BR/><BR/>Anonymous, is this the Jesus who is the son of Jehovah God? Is this the Jesus who was with the Father in the beginning? Is this the same Jesus who is a part of the Trinity? Is this the Jesus, who, in the form of a man called on the Father and submitted to Him? Instructed us on how to pray to Him? Is this the Jesus who will one day return to the earth and every knee will bow to Him? Is this the Jesus who will separate the sheep from the goats? Is that the Jesus of whom you speak? <BR/><BR/>Progressives try their best to make Jesus into a one dimensional character. He is not.Jackie Meltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10554151805461400754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129578241800015212005-10-17T14:44:00.000-05:002005-10-17T14:44:00.000-05:00jesus knew there would be wars because man is by n...jesus knew there would be wars because man is by nature sinful. jesus said to love our enemies and i am sorry but you can't love your enemy while putting a bullet in their head and bombing their cities.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129565853755829142005-10-17T11:17:00.000-05:002005-10-17T11:17:00.000-05:00War is against the teachings of Jesus.....That is ...<I>War is against the teachings of Jesus.....That is a no brainer.</I><BR/><BR/>It is, apparently, a "no brainer" to progressives because believing what you just typed requires no thinking whatsoever.<BR/><BR/>Jesus knew there would be wars throughout man's existence, as we are a world full of sin, hatred and evil. (Romans 3:10-18) He said it was inevitable until His return. (Mark 13:7-8) Further, He dealt with governments, or magistrates, differently than He did individuals. The sermon on the Mount, which progressives reference most in an attempt to prove Jesus was a pacifist, was an instruction in personal conduct, not governmental conduct. He was, in essence, clearing up some things which were being mistaught by religious leaders to their listeners, stating "You have heard it said...." He followed it up with a warning to the religious leaders of that time with, "Whoever therefore breaks one of the commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven..." He was addressing PERSONAL behavior, individual Christians in their conduct towards other individuals when disputes, or worse, arose. On the other hand, we learn from the Bible that magistrates are ministers who serve as "an avenger to <B>execute wrath</B> on him who practices evil" (Romans 13:4) Jesus wasn't duplicitous nor were His teachings contradictory to God's words. We, personally, in our individual behavior are taught not to seek vengeance, which would create constant chaos, but we are to rely on magistrates, whom God placed in authority over us, to impose justice on wrongdoers in all matters. <BR/><BR/>Governments are God-appointed authorities, given the free will to wage war against evil as the apostle Paul said "Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. <B>For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil.</B> Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil." Romans 13:1-5) He clearly laid out the responsibility of government, which does not bear a sword for nothing, and of individuals' resposibility to respect their authority, above.<BR/><BR/>First Peter 2:13-14 agrees and suggests that governments are to punish those who do evil, i.e. criminals, murderers and terrorists. "Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right."<BR/><BR/><I>Conservatives want bombs and war. They don't care how much of their taxes pays for that, but give to the poor and they are screaming and crying.</I><BR/><BR/>That is just a lie, and I suspect you're smart enough to know it. No one WANTS war. Only an idiot would believe such drivel, in my opinion. You strike me as no idiot.Momma Twoophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06111193334831175675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129559221489364632005-10-17T09:27:00.000-05:002005-10-17T09:27:00.000-05:00War is against the teachings of Jesus. Helping the...War is against the teachings of Jesus. Helping the poor follows the teachings of Jesus. That is a no brainer.<BR/><BR/>Oh yeah, but that is right. Conservatives want bombs and war. They don't care how much of their taxes pays for that, but give to the poor and they are screaming and crying. Studies have proven that the vast majority getting a "hand up" are working poor. They have jobs. They work everyday and still fall below the poverty line. Love your neighbors, people. That includes wanting you neighbor to have food on their table and a roof over their heads. Jesus didn't say love your neighbor as long as they are doing things the way you say they should.<BR/><BR/>You two really need to read your bibles. Focus on the teachings of Jesus and shut the TV off when Hagee and his ilk preach from the pulpit of world politics instead of the bible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129514594432177272005-10-16T21:03:00.000-05:002005-10-16T21:03:00.000-05:00Twoop, remember the "anonymous" who said:No. You'r...Twoop, remember the "anonymous" who said:<BR/><BR/>No. You're wrong. You'll grow up someday?<BR/><BR/>Well, that anonymous needs to read the new anonymous' comment. It is quite evident that some Progressive Christians do, indeed, claim the motto "Judge Not Lest We Judge You for Judging." Could it be any clearer that conservatives are judged from these lines:<BR/><BR/>"if conservatives ... why should we believe they even want to help the poor?"<BR/><BR/>and<BR/><BR/>"conservatives want to control the poor. they don't want to help them. they want to make them beggars at their doors."<BR/><BR/>The fact of the matter is that Progressive Christians do judge Conservative Christians, failing to see that we do care about the poor we just disagree on the best way to serve them. This is a highly politicized stance, in my opinion it is based little on Christianity and much on partisan politics. It doesn't have to get personal or judgemental, but many, rather than following their own convictions decide that if others don't follow THEIR particular game plan that they just don't care at all. <BR/><BR/>For me, caring about the poor is a more personal experience and less of a appeal to some governmental agency to do it for me. I suppose it takes all kinds, and perhaps there is no harm in anonymous lobbying the government for aid for the poor, but likewise there is no harm in me doing it by a different route either. To coin a phrase, perhaps these anonymous' will "grow up someday?" <BR/><BR/>Socialism, on the other hand, should concern us and as you so articulately stated earlier America was not intended to be a socialist Nation. I will follow MY conviction and fight to see that it never becomes one, seemingly much to the chagrin of progressively socialist Christians.Jackie Meltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10554151805461400754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129504734142537402005-10-16T18:18:00.000-05:002005-10-16T18:18:00.000-05:00You got that right, Jacke. Everything people get ...You got that right, Jacke. Everything people get "free" from the government, whether it be in the form of welfare, state pork projects, such as a new art center or bridge, or SSI, it must first be taken from someone else. Nothing is "free" and people forget that. The sense of entitlement is too strong, and new groups entitled to "free" stuff or special treatment from the government are always popping up.<BR/><BR/>Speaking of that sense of entitlement, a perfect instance of such a thing is visible in Anonymous' post. He (she?) says: <BR/><BR/><I>they don't have to rely on a church to give them a bag of crackers, chips, and canned meat and then figure out how they are going to feed their family for a couple of days let alone a month.</I><BR/><BR/>Instead of being thankful that the poor are given anything from a church, or anyone else, he seems to display anger that they weren't given enough. I don't understand that mentality and I never will. It is repulsive to me.Momma Twoophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06111193334831175675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129501360509380842005-10-16T17:22:00.000-05:002005-10-16T17:22:00.000-05:00Twoop writes:"You say government has no ulterior m...Twoop writes:<BR/><BR/>"You say government has no ulterior motive in deciding who gets what. They surely do in the context of today's reality, which is, "Give me mine! I deserve it!" Doesn't matter if they deserve it or not, the sense of entitlement is there. You make the people dependent on you, you, in essence, enslave them. Providing hand-outs with as few strings as possible is something progressives are wont to do, not conservatives."<BR/><BR/>I'm glad you pointed that out, Twoop. I agree. :) Another reason there are strings attached is that the Democratic Party wants to keep the poor nursing at that government tit with promises during campaign seasons, ie as leverage to win votes. There certainly are strings attached. There is no such thing as a free lunch, is there?Jackie Meltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10554151805461400754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129500866804072952005-10-16T17:14:00.000-05:002005-10-16T17:14:00.000-05:00Anonymous, I don't know, nor have I ever heard, of...Anonymous, I don't know, nor have I ever heard, of anyone complaining of helping those who are truly in need and looking for a hand up. However, many of those on the receiving end aren't looking for a hand up as much as they are an easy way out. Abuse of the system is rampant. Further, the system itself has engendered a sense of entitlement among our countrymen, a sense which has no place in our national fabric.<BR/><BR/>Conservatives don't cry about giving money to the poor. They are angry at having such an easily abused system and at the progressives' penchant to block any kind of reform. Progressive mantra, pushed throughout our country's higher education system and elsewhere, of "If it feels good, do it," have only made the situation worse.<BR/><BR/>You lambast conservatives for allegedly making the poor beg for help, stating that it should be left in the government's hands so that no one has to figure out, on their own, how to earn or acquire their next meal. You pretend we want the poor "begging at church doors." Ironically, you propose they be made to beg at government's door. Why is that any better, in your opinion? <BR/><BR/>You've heard the saying, "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime." That, to me, explains the difference between progressives and conservatives. Progressives simply want to give people fish, teaching only a few, if any at all, how to fish for themselves. <BR/><BR/>You say government has no ulterior motive in deciding who gets what. They surely do in the context of today's reality, which is, "Give me mine! I deserve it!" Doesn't matter if they deserve it or not, the sense of entitlement is there. You make the people dependent on you, you, in essence, enslave them. Providing hand-outs with as few strings as possible is something progressives are wont to do, not conservatives.Momma Twoophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06111193334831175675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129497138231025582005-10-16T16:12:00.000-05:002005-10-16T16:12:00.000-05:00tinkerbellrock@earthling.net said... "Better yet, ...tinkerbellrock@earthling.net said... <BR/>"Better yet, where in the bible does it say that we aren't to give to the poor via taxes? It doesn't. According to that very same bible we are to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and if Caesar wants to give a portion of that to the poor then we aren't to complain." <BR/><BR/>...and the coin retrieved had whose picture on it? We can understand that Caesar represents the government in this scripture can't we? We can understand that we are also supposed to abide by the rule of authorities and that the authorities that we have are there by the grace of God, can't we? And in America we know that those authorities in our government are placed there by the consensus of the people as representatives for us in our respective States, or counties or Cities, don't we? As such, at least in America, we certainly DO have a say in how that money is spent because we have a representative governmental system. <BR/><BR/>Under your argument, Tink, we could also claim that there is nothing on which the government spends money which should be open to complaint. right? So all those leftist-liberals who are screaming about the money being spent on the war against terrorism rather than on our own people should just shut up and send in their tax dollars without complaint? Is that an argument you really want to pursue?<BR/><BR/>An even more interesting topic would be who does the copper, silver, gold, platinum, diamond, emerald, OIL, belong to? Who made it? Whose name is sealed on YOUR forehead? Who do YOU belong to? Does anything really belong to you, or me, or the federal government?<BR/><BR/>I haven't settled on a particular interpretation of what Jesus meant by the Caesar comment. I can see that it could be interpreted in more than one way and that those ways could be contrary. I think Jesus, in His wisdom, asked a question which many would choose not to respond to in this case, just as He did with the adulterous woman brought to Him when He told them he who is without sin should cast the first stone, there was no response, was there? They knew in their hearts they were all sinners, they could not throw stones but neither did they want to have a debate with Jesus, they chose to walk away, even though their own law dictated to them that they had a right to cast those stones. Interesting, huh?<BR/><BR/>In response to "anonymous"<BR/><BR/>We do know that Jesus has told us that we can't serve both God and money. Money is not a partisan issue, on it's face, there are wealthy Democrats and wealthy Republicans, wealthy Libertarians and wealthy independents. We all have to make that choice independently and I am not of the opinion that when people make the wrong decision that the government should then step in and make that decision for them because they are too stupid to do the right thing. That is elitist thinking at it's best, follow that road and it'll get much worse.<BR/><BR/>Read Isaiah 55: 1-3.Jackie Meltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10554151805461400754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10887668.post-1129488167282973112005-10-16T13:42:00.000-05:002005-10-16T13:42:00.000-05:00Better yet, where in the bible does it say that we...Better yet, where in the bible does it say that we aren't to give to the poor via taxes? It doesn't. According to that very same bible we are to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and if Caesar wants to give a portion of that to the poor then we aren't to complain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com